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Posted: Post subject:
WARD00 Has Nothing Better To Do
Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 88
Location: Usually in a Pub
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Winning At All Costs
After playing pool last night against St Pats where we lost 7 – 3 I was told that the St Pats team had played an illegal player and would lose 2 frames so the match would now be a draw.
The match in question was supposed to be played in the first half of the season and was postponed; the player had signed on in the transfer window and was therefore deemed ineligible as he would not have been in the team when the match was supposed to have been played.
Now if all concerned are aware of this then fine its St Pats loss and it’s just hard luck!
What really pissed me off is the fact that both Lee and Steve were at the game and knew this was the situation but did not let the St Pats team know they just let them and us carry on knowing that if this player played they would deduct the frames.
WHAT A JOKE!
The only reason I can see for doing this is that St Pats are one of 3 teams that will challenge for the league and this will benefit the Railway as St Pats will lose a point.
I suppose I will get the usual tirade back saying that rules are rules, if you don’t like it then you come and run the league, the committee put in a lot of time without any reward etc. etc.
WELL I DON’T LIKE IT…..
As I have said in previous posts I appreciate all the effort that the committee put in but this is just a step to far. Rules are Rules but common sense has to take over somewhere, it’s not all about who wins the league, cup etc. etc. It’s supposed to be an enjoyable social night out, having a few pints and a bit of banter.
Anyway winning at all costs is something I personally can not condone or accept.
I have decided that I will play the rest of this season out and then will not play in this or the Sunday pool league again, most people probably won’t be bothered if I play in any league either way so no loss there.
I’m glad I waited overnight to put this on the forum if I hadn’t this post would have been an attack and it’s just not worth it.
Good luck to you all for the rest of this season and also the future, I hope common sense prevails! _________________ "Up the Hammers"
Potting Machine Pool Addict
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 495
Location: Elephant & Castle
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 am Post subject:
We all know how difficult it is to run a successful league or tournament and it is nigh on impossible to please everyone all of the time, especially if those organisers are personally involved in the competitions.
The rules are put in place to try and make this happen and that everyone is playing off a level playing field, as long as the rules are completely transparent and easily accessible to all the teams, then the committee have fulfilled their duties in that respect.
On reflection and in regards to the incident you have referred to last night, St Pats clearly had not acknowledged or interpreted the rules correctly and therefore played an illegal player in two frames.
Whether or not they should have been warned on the night is another argument and is rightly up for debate, we dont know the full story and shouldn't speculate when we dont know the facts in this particular case, they may have been pre-warned or told about the rules beforehand for example when Liam made the transfer.
It is common sense I suppose, any team could cancel fixtures against rivals in the first half of the season, sign up top players in the transfer window and give them a better chance when the match is replayed, in hindsight I believe St Pats should have cottoned on to that and realised their mistakes before the incident happened.
WARD00 Has Nothing Better To Do
Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 88
Location: Usually in a Pub
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:17 am Post subject:
[quote="Potting Machine"]
Whether or not they should have been warned on the night is another argument and is rightly up for debate.
Brian, don't totally disagree with anything you have said but the main point to me is that St Pats could have and should have been told last night that they were going to play an illegal player.
To not tell them just shows how it's not about playing a game and having a laugh and a bit of banter but it's all about winning. Anyone would think we get paid to play and it's the bloody world championships.
As I said that's not what I play pool for and it's not what I go out on a Sunday and Thursday night for. _________________ "Up the Hammers"
Villafan Site Admin
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 353
Location: Simple Simon
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:
Kev – Thank you for your post, and i am well aware that the events of last night would bring with it some controversy. So let me put some facts to you.
Lee & myself were out last night for a social evening, nothing more, nothing less. As committee members we are entitled to a bit of free time, and as the game last night was the only match being played in the Prem league it was an opportunity to watch two quality teams playing in what was always going to be a good game.
Do you really think that we are both that petty that we would deliberately go there last night in the knowledge that St pats were going to break the rules, sit back and let it happen !!! come on Kev, don’t be so naive, the same thing would of happened if we were there or not.
Would you have the same noble attitude if the game last night was a title decider between both teams and you had lost the league by two frames, maybe you would, but i doubt it.
If you take the time to read all the notices on the Leamington & District website, you will see we have taken the same action against any team that has done the same thing, we have to be consistent to all the teams in the league, not just the selected few.
Have you not considered the fact that other teams would complain if they knew that we had of stepped in and stopped any team playing an illegal player, how do you think we find out when teams play illegal players ? it is a combination of teams informing us, or by us checking the score cards each week, a thankless task, but important all the same.
If we wanted to we could have deducted St Pats 2 points for sending in a score card ten days late for a previous game, instead of doing that we put a note on the website, telling them to get the card in to avoid a points deduction, and followed that up with a call to the captain, is that the actions of a committee that wants to “win at all costs” as you so eloquently put it.
Kev – i personally think it would be a big loss to all local leagues if you decide to quit playing on the back of this, however this is your decision and i respect you for that. _________________ Steve Short
Leamington & District Pool Committee
Potting Machine Pool Addict
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 495
Location: Elephant & Castle
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject:
The crux of this problem is to determine if this transfer rule is available in writing or was verbally communicated to team captains, this would nip in the bud any arguments between players and committee members.
WARD00 Has Nothing Better To Do
Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 88
Location: Usually in a Pub
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject:
Steve, you and Lee are more than entitled to your own free time and to go wherever you want in that time so I have absolutley no problem with that it makes sense that you would go along and watch 2 teams playing pool.
In answer to your question " Would you have the same noble attitude if the game last night was a title decider between both teams and you had lost the league by two frames, maybe you would, but i doubt it. " The answer is YES I would have had exactly the same attitude if I had known any team I was playing against was going to play an illegal player I would have told them there and then whatever the situation. If the other team had 5 players from Mars and we lost 10 - 0 it wouldn't bother me as long as we had a good night and the game was played in the right spirit, that's perhaps where I differ from a number of people pool is pool not life or death.
Where you have said that other teams might complain if you had stepped in and said anything. I'm not sure that any team would have complained and have to take your guidance on this and believe that it could have happened.
Where you have said "Do you really think that we are both that petty that we would deliberately go there last night in the knowledge that St pats were going to break the rules, sit back and let it happen !!! come on Kev, don’t be so naive, the same thing would of happened if we were there or not. I agree that the same thing would have happened if you were there or not but you did just sit back and let it happen thats where we disagree.
The thing I also find strange is that a couple of our players knew the situation before the end of the game and that could have influenced the result so it seems a bit like double standards to me. If I had known at any point in the game I would have told St Pats as soon as I knew perhaps that's me being naive.
Where you have said that you could have deducted St Pats 2 points for a late card and instead of doing this you took a different course of action then great that's where common sense has prevailed.
I had been having a good night last night playing some very good players at pool and having a few beers and a laugh, but hearing what I heard when we got back to our local spoilt that night and I felt that this could have been avoided with a bit of common sense.
Thanks for the comments "i personally think it would be a big loss to all local leagues if you decide to quit playing on the back of this," but I have made my decision and think it's best as playing pool in these leagues seems to be as much about rules/politics/and trying to get one over on one another for me so I will not be playing after this season. _________________ "Up the Hammers"
WARD00 Has Nothing Better To Do
Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 88
Location: Usually in a Pub
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject:
Potting Machine wrote:
The crux of this problem is to determine if this transfer rule is available in writing or was verbally communicated to team captains, this would nip in the bud any arguments between players and committee members.
Brian, thats not my argument I'm not bothered who where or when people were told. All this would do is either validate or not the decision that was made.
My disagreement is that the St Pats players who from my point of view were last night unaware of playing an illegal player could have been informed last night and they were not. _________________ "Up the Hammers"
MJA Has Nothing Better To Do Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 50
Location: St pats/blackhorse/reds/rileys
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject:
i think the attitude of the league is imagining that this is a pro tour or sumin i understand u have 2 have sum set of rules®s to run a sucsesful league but for a local pool league its a bit to much.
So who's responsibility is it anyway 2 inform the st pats that deano is inegilible for this fixture AS: we didnt re-arrange it anyway so its not our problem 2: the hod also cancelled on us this season and we had to rearrange on a date that we didnt really want to. so thats twice this season we havnt re-arranged Sh*t but we keep on getting done over!!
we pulled out a great win last nyt which is more annoyin without robbie prewit and berty arguably 3 players that would have started, against a greyhound team the strongest i have seen for sum yrs.
wen i heard about this last nyt i fort the greyhound lads wre cracking jokes to b honest!, to sit there and say (shorty & lee) you couldnt say anyfin cause you wre jst on a social nyt out is wrong, i didnt put deano on until the 6th frame, all it took was a little word n i could of played sum1 else at worse i was going into the back 4 frames at 3-3 and then in the bk 4 i chose to play deano n not laney so if i new deano was not available i could have used laney who would have arguably won his frame as the quality player he is n not used deano at all n still had a chance of winning last nyts game. _________________ The Transfer Mogul, jst bringin the best to the leam pool league!
MJA Has Nothing Better To Do Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 50
Location: St pats/blackhorse/reds/rileys
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:
Potting Machine wrote:
I believe St Pats should have cottoned on to that and realised their mistakes before the incident happened.
i do understand you bri but wen ure captain aint there n i was steppin in to do it n it was all in a bit of a rush how can any1 expect us to COTTON! on to it lol. as far as i am concerned we didnt cancell the original fixture which we were able to fulfil so to deduct us potential title winning points on a human error cant be condemed by our team, do the commitee really want to ruin the league title challege by this human error or come to the fact that it was a confusing re-arranged fixture n had no idea of deano's enilegibility, i mean lets be honest if WE NEW DEANO WAS NOT AVAILABLE FOR THIS GAME WE WERE NOT LIKELY TO FIELD HIM IN A GAME RIGHT INFRONT OF 2 COMMITEE MEMBERS. _________________ The Transfer Mogul, jst bringin the best to the leam pool league!
WARD00 Has Nothing Better To Do
Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 88
Location: Usually in a Pub
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:
MJA wrote:
Potting Machine wrote:
I believe St Pats should have cottoned on to that and realised their mistakes before the incident happened.
i mean lets be honest if WE NEW DEANO WAS NOT AVAILABLE FOR THIS GAME WE WERE NOT LIKELY TO FIELD HIM IN A GAME RIGHT INFRONT OF 2 COMMITEE MEMBERS.
Agree with the above and that's exactly what I thought last night. The only other thing I would like to say on last nights game was that the player in question has got to be right up their with the best players I have seen or played against in the league. In the last 4 I actually played against Deano and knew as soon as I missed because of bad position that I was never going to get back to the table. Well played to all the St Pats lads and I hope this issue will not be a deciding factor in who win's the League.
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